Finally, my answer to the question that you have all been searching for. (I have noticed that since I started this blog, many people who find it do so by searching for an answer to that very question.) Now, I'm not a psychologist or anything, so I'm not really trained to answer the question, but I'll give my take on the situation, none the less. So here it goes.
First issue: If someone is asking "why are women irrational?" it is probably safe to assume the person asking is male, so I'll begin there. The real question at hand is "why do men view women as irrational?" I'm sure that not all men do, but for the purpose of this blog post, I'll be working from that assumption.
Second issue: What do you mean by rational/irrational? Not everyone means the same thing when they use the term. I'll give my understanding of the term and go from there. And yes, I know that at least one reader out there will disagree with me, but that is okay, too.
There are two main sources of my understanding of rationality/irrationality.
1) Notes from one of my professors in graduate school:
The four steps of rational action:
a) state an objective
b) look at options
c) evaluate the likelihood of success
d) evaluate the cost of pursuing options
(Rinehart, class notes, Intro. to Int'l Relations, Sept. 8, 2004)
2) Plato's Republic (I couldn't find a complete copy on line to link to but this site has a decent overview of the part I'm talking about).
Plato suggests that there are three parts to the human soul (or three souls) that guide human behavior. These are the rational, the spirited and the appetitive souls. For Plato, the rational soul is the logical decision-making part of human beings, the linked site equates it with the mind or the intellect. The appetitive soul equates to emotions or desires. Plato sees these forces as constantly in conflict with the rational soul. These attributes are often equated with irrational behavior.
So, to bring the two sources together, rationality is using reason and intellect to weigh options on the path to achieving a stated goal. When emotions and desires (often carnal) cloud an individual's ability to think logically and intellectually weigh options, that individual can be understood as acting irrationally. This can include emotions such as jealousy or love and desires like lust or greed. Also included in irrational motivations would be superstition or blind faith. These are beliefs that cannot be verified using empirical data.
Finally, my answer: Both men and women are irrational at times. We allow ourselves to be distracted from our goals by emotions, desires and non-rational motivations. I believe, however, that men are inclined to view women as irrational, and believe themselves to be wholly rational, because they tend to be distracted from rational pursuits by different irrational forces. Men understand the irrational forces that distract them, like jealousy and lust, but they tend not to understand the irrational factors that affect women. (And of course, there is always the hormone issue, but I'm not gonna go there right now.)
I repeat, I am not saying this is true of all men, I'm just addressing the many men who ask that particular question on a regular basis. Stop and think for a minute, "Is everything I do rational?" The answer is, probably not. Don't use the term to label women, try to understand that it affects all of us, just in different ways.
And although I'm not a trained psychiatrist/psychologist, here is a quote from someone who is.
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81 comments:
Plato was awfully conservative in some ways. For example, he argued that Democracy was not advisable and that an oligarchy of philosopher kings was the way to govern.
'Tis true, Plato had some issues, but he had some good insights as well.
This is insane. Anyone who has ever interacted with any woman, especially as regards a relationship, knows that women are completely irrational. It is an undisputable fact. To say otherwise is a joke, and everyone knows it. This is no doubt due to the harmful effect of estrogen on the human mind. However, women have all the power in our society and are treated like gold by everyone. Perhaps unlimited power has made them irrational. And, I don't care about whether we have a woman president or not. Women sit on their ass, do nothing, and live off nothing but their looks and their pussy. Men have to beg and plead and be rejected 90% of the time, usually in favor of some ugly loser who the woman feels she can push around. You know what is irrational? Seeing a gorgeous blonde turn down a good looking guy every time and pick the ugly jerk every time, and then her saying she picked him for his "personality", which means she is irrational and does not know why she is with him. The good looking guy gets his character attacked for daring to have the self esteem to think that he should get the girl because he is cooler, smarter, better looking and nicer. Then, the girl comes to the good looking, nice, smart guy and cries on his shoulder when the ugly loser jerk with the "personality" cheats on with other irrational, insane women who chose him for his "personality"
First of all, I'd like to say that it is usually just the opposite of the situation you describe. Usually the attractive woman goes out with the attractive loser jerk and then cries on the shoulder of the less attractive guy with the great personality.
But anyway, your argument simply goes to prove my own point. You are being completely irration, most likely because you've had your feelings hurt by some woman who didn't think as highly of you as you obviously think of yourself. You're just being emotional and blaming women for it. So rant on, make yourself look just as irrational as everybody else.
A Canadian study of women in debate situations compared to men came to same very defined conclusions and advice for men in these situations.
It concluded quite simply that women nearly pathologically changed the subject, and rarely ended up making a point directly related to the issue being debated. Somethimes it was tangentially related and other times totally off the wall, but correct. leaving the woman smug as if she "won", and the man totally confused and is the sourse of much male anger and frustration in arguments.
i agree with anonymous to an extent. jan has deliberately reworded the rational/irrational question to make it seem as if men consider themselves totally rational beings in the face of women's irrationality. this may have been the crux of the issue 60-100 years ago, but i know few intelligent people that think in those terms now. it's a typical trick performed mostly by american/canadian/australian feminists. men and women are both irrational in their own way, but the point isn't that men and women are both irrational, the point is the _degree_ to which they are irrational and the extent to which this affects one's personal emotional life. the fact is that women are more likely to complain about their emotional lives than men, and this has nothing to do with insight either. they just have less control over it.
also, while men and women are generally of average intelligence, genius is more apparent in men than women and this is strongly supported by evidence not produced by feminists or other members of the weak PC world. genius in history has been a man's domain, and women's liberation has not changed this one iota. the patriachal boogeyman has nothing to do with their lesser achievements in the fields of science and art. women are still not winning as many nobel prizes or awards granted for outstanding intellectual, creative or artistic achievements. i refuse to believe this is a coincidence. the arguments i've heard against it amount to nothing more than denial.
i'd like to reiterate at this point that i don't believe the average woman is less intelligent than the average man. i just believe their capacity for genius is limited, that's all.
as for anonymous claims about women going for the wrong man, that's true, but i'm not entirely convinced it's due to their irrationality either. women are just socially conditioned to lie about what they want. the problem is that many of us believe the lie and get angry that women don't value as in the way they 'should'.
men often can't accept the fact that the shifts in the marketplace have left them out in the cold. women don't need us for anything anymore except sex, and that's why our looks have become important to them. they are less interested in our money nowadays, and they are certainly not interested in our ability to console and comfort them emotionally. unless of course they are basket cases, and trust me, you don't want that.
feminism is outdated now. patriachy doesn't exist. the scales have tipped in favour of women, and they continue to assert their 'rights' at our expense. it's time for a real men's movement to bring serious balance to these issues. because we are seriously getting killed out there.
I don't view men as especially rational, hell I've seen some pretty irrational behavior from myself and other "males" I've known. What I do know though is that those of the female sex are certainly more vulnerable as a result of such irrational behavior. For example, my brother's girlfriend is just now realizing she may not want to be a mother now or that my brother may not be a great father. How do I know this, because I room with two of my brothers (One of them is at basic training at the moment), and she's very very loud.
So yes, is she irrational? Yes. For she didn't have a problem with it the last month or so when she wouldn't be damn quiet during well you know (I mean geeze, have some courtesy for other people). Again, she's very loud, so its not like I'm trying to ease-drop. Of course my brother is equally irrational for having given into his sexual needs instead of making sure they were both on the same page.
Still, she's the more vulnerable one, because she may end up pregnant and with a child that is likely to limit what she does further on with her life. Whee, now they're both shouting. I just love fights. -_-
Oh, and just for an even better picture, at least 25% of young girls have STD's. Since women are generally more sexually experienced then men and since both sexes sleep around that can be good. Again, though, its the females who will be left more vulnerable. Whee, fun! Oh and any ladies who believe prince charming exist, sorry to bust your bubble but he doesn't (Yet so many women lack rational expectations from males. Why?).
Of course maybe I'm wrong, after all I don't have much experience with socializing lately. So I only know what I think I know from observation. So yeah, feel free to tell me I'm wrong. Hell, I hope I'm wrong, and no I'm not saying that all females are irrational. It's probably just that the majority of the human race is irrational. :P
Oh by the way, I forgot to mention that she is probably pregnant and all this is coming out after the fact. -_-
Oh, and again she's been pregnant before and had a miscarriage and yet she seems to blame him for what was a consensual act. Bleh. Not that I'm saying he was entirely smart in this matter either, but again she's the more effected by the whole thing and thus she should of been the more rational. -_-
That being said, the question should really be, "Why are women more irrational than men?" Though of course it's not proven that they are, but considering we're all irrational at one time or another that question makes more sense.
Of course the idea that women are more irrational is probably due to the fact that they are certainly more emotional. Er, I'll shut-up now, I know nobody asked my opinion anyway. ^.^
In the Myers Briggs typology, men are likely to have a preference for thinking (T), while women are more likely to have a preference for feeling (F). Women being more F's than T's are more likely to be irrational.
I believe both men and women have the potential to be irrational. However, women tend to ask questions that are completely illogical. For example, if a woman asks a man, "does this make me look fat?" the man is between a rock and a hard place. If the man says you look beautiful in that, the woman accuses him of lying. If he tells her she does not look so great, she hates him for being too harsh. No matter what the man says, he's screwed. Women can be very insecure creatures. Men don't ask these kinds of questions to women. It only goes one way.
i found your blog via asking that very same question! i have a very close female friend (i'm a guy) who has been simply irrational lately -- to the point i've been doing research into how to get her into counseling! she shared with me the fact that it seems all her female friends are fighting with the men closest to them right now. it would seem female irrationality is an epidemic!
so, while i am not sure of your answer -- it was a little biased against men, i thought -- i wanted to comment and say that it was a good point: men view women as irrational.
i'm going to talk to her about seeking help on Monday -- i'm sure that'll go over well...wish me luck, anyway.
your all tourists.you should stay away from things you know nothing about!
if you spent some time looking at the definitions of rational and irrational. as well as the term emotional which is not the same as irrational ... it is the experience of an emotion.
plus had a basic understanding of psychology (i get it and i only have a major in it).
further had an understanding of the history that you were walking in to there is no way some of the comments here would be made!
there is an entire established discourse concerning the development of the concept of the neurotic, disordered, irrational woman. i suggest some of you read
carol pateman "the disorder of women" the first chapter will do.
in western liberal democracies women exist in a society that has defined male as normal, has constructed society around female oppression that requires women to be in the home and be ok with it. Finally, when women are not ok with being defined as irrational and deficient, when they are unhappy in their assigned role but there is no way out because the entirety of society expects the primary responsibility of child care and home maintenance to be a female responsibility. we have a situation of frustration and frustration when it is given no outlet has knowhere to go but to the "irrational".
so maybe kids its not irrational. maybe its a type of frustration we have no way to talk about because of the patriarchal construation of identity, gender specific roles, and reality.
rationality, irrationality. they are not gender identifiers... they are things that we as PEOPLE do!
and in case you need evidence, think about it, is the popular culture of male violence rational?
furthermore,
I find the fact that this blog is on the web completely sexist, insulting and ignorant.
This topic is totally outdated. But publishing something like this to such a large audience makes it new again.
Your bringing old ideas back into a popular discourse, this makes these idea more and more ok and in fact can inflate sexist ideas.
Prehaps a more positive question?
Centered around rationality and women.
remember people, when you turn your back the world still turns, and every person manages to survive even if they are female, or of any other minority group. furthermore oppressed groups have a harder start... overcoming that and still surviving... just shows how STUPID generalisations can be
peace out
This blog post makes me laugh. It is a fact, not an opinion, that women are generally more irrational than men. They normally let spontaneous emotions drive their decisions, and they use confusing, fuzzy, and sometimes outright ridiculous logic in debates.
This is their thought-process:
"'Yes' means strawberry red."
"Love is greater than 246."
"If he looks at me again, I'm going to blow up in his face. I hate long sleeves!"
"My pizza burned in the microwave... what a wonderful view my dream home would have!"
When they speak and when they think, it makes no f'ing sense. And they wonder why guys are so confused and frustrated with them?
Amen to that brother, women are fuckíng freaks of nature, you can´t live with them and can´t live without them, life is a bitch
This just makes me sad. I agree 100% with everything anonymous said, our society is built around opression and still is, people who think otherwise need to have a good hard look at the world.
Sort it out, don't perpetuate negative stereotypes. Don't use ridiculous arguments like "Oh women have less capacity for genius"...do you have any idea what you're talking about? Womens lib only made serious changes in the 60s, thats 50 years ago.
So 50 years of womens 'liberation' (which has effectively been dead for the last ten years anyway) is supposed to change thousands of years of patriarchy??
Look at womens lifestyles today. Yes we are allowed to work thats fantastic thank you very much establishment.
It's also completely acceptable for us to run around naked, dance around poles and get famous for doing this, as we are now 'liberated' (read: men like this).
I'm definitely a feminist and I think more people should be. I like men they're pretty cool, and I'm not gay and I wear a bra.
Read some books and stop being so bloody ignorant, PLEASE.
Sorry btw I wasn't actually aiming that above comment at the writer of this blog. More at some of the inane comments
I disagree with a very important part of this author's argument; Being 'rational' does not always (and often does not) have anything at all to do with obtaining a specific goal. It is for this VERY reason that Men, as well as many women in a calm state of mind, will see other womens actions as Irrational.
Let me explain:
Many Women just LOVE stuff like Louis Voutton purses...these purses are JUNK - the main fabric of these ultra expensive duff bags are made from Vinyl (plastic, the accessories are Gold PLATED, and the Leather handles stain with normal wear....But Manu women just swear by these purses...why? Because they ENVY what other woman have, and make irrational decisions to get such objects....there is no real objective, or goal, because if that was the case, then the Goal would be to get a BAG, not a LV Bag.
Another example would be the chaotic and completely unpredictable way that any particular women will react to the exact same set of circumstances, on different days...one day the reaction will be Rational, the next day it will wont be, again, this is not her trying to obtain any goal, it is her actual reaction to a given set of circumstanses which is irrational.
Feel free to correct me if I have this incorrect...women..please tell me yourselves feel fine one day, and not the next due to "what time of the month it is"....
OK, I see we have a couple of feminist defending women in the comment section. Typical. I see the "male violence" card was played.
I will tell you exactly what is wrong and what causes male violence. I used to despise men who lost their temper, had female friends and family who were "victims", but I have come to understand that in most cases women are not victims, they are irrational freaks who push every button they can find until they send a man over the edge, then cry because the man became so frustrated that his OWN carnal instincts were unleashed. And I'm not talking about hitting or beating...I'm talking about a man even daring raise his voice or punch a wall in frustration. Then, once that line has been crossed, women accuse the man of being violent, intimidating, that they fear their own safety.
If you touch a dog and it growls, this is a warning to leave it alone. If you keep touching it and it bites you, it is your own fault for not heading the warning.
Now, I'm not defending men for losing our cool, but it is a FACT that everyone, including women, has a boiling point. Why on Earth women think they can verbally abuse a man at the drop of a hat, then when things turn into an argument, totally confuse the discussion with irrational and emotional bullshit, and all the while expect the man to coddle their behavior, I will never know. Women are very much children and have not been equipped in our society with a sense of responsibility or fear of consequences. Even as a child I remember the warnings that I dare not hit my sister no matter how much she hit, walloped, or otherwise abused me. She could chase me with a knife and throw things at me, then I wrestle it from her and pull her hair, and I'm getting my rear busted for hurting my sister.
This is how women fight, and it isn't fair, and men may hold their cool for weeks, months, and then there is a tipping point. We eventually get tired of reacting rationally because it doesn't work. Once the argument has been taken to an irrational level by a women, there is no going back, so eventually men meet the woman on her level, and when we do, we are accused of being violent, uncontrollable beasts.
WOmen hold all the cards and society fosters this crap. I'm sick of it.
From Arthur Schopenhauer:
"Nor can one expect anything else from women if one considers that the most eminent heads of the entire sex have proved incapable of a single truly great, genuine and original achievement in art, or indeed of creating anything at all of lasting value: this strikes one most forcibly in regard to painting, since they are just as capable of mastering its technique as we are, and indeed paint very busily, yet cannot point to a single great painting; the reason being precisely that they lack all objectivity of mind, which is what painting demands above all else. Isolated and partial exceptions do not alter the case: women, taken as a whole, are and remain thorough and incurable philistines: so that, with the extremely absurd arrangement by which they share the rank and title of their husband, they are a continual spur to his ignoble ambitions. They are sexus sequior, the inferior second sex in every respect: one should be indulgent toward their weaknesses, but to pay them honour is ridiculous beyond measure and demeans us even in their eyes."
Call me what you want, but I feel that the "equalization" of women in western society has created this matrist/liberal state where we value security over freedom (sorry, Mr. Franklin). Why man ever capitulated is beyond my understanding.
Some of the most rational people I know are women. Some of the most irrational people I know are women.
Our Oxford education department records objective distinctions in 1 & 2-year old girls and boys videos. Girls will play more often (50+%) facing each other and sharing something (relational based identity) between them, having more eye contact and expressing verbal clues. Boys will more often sit side-by-side with less eye contact, less words and throw things against the wall acting-out (achievment based identity) upon their environment. Our Gender Studies Center operated by women PhDs, records the (51+%) predisposition to R-L brain multi-tasking because of the female's wider corpus colosum. The Center also acknowledges the male tendency to process information in a more limiting linear (self-tracking logical) manner. Men (50+%) ignore feelings. Men observe non-linear feelings influencing decisions, which step out of the 'lines' on the field, as unsafe. If someone appears to behave (functions, operates, or communicates) in a manner that appears not-rational or not-logical in making sense, then that person is considered not safe as a partner, because they are seen as capable of unpredictable conclusions that might produce unstable, risky expensive outcomes. A person appears not safe to invest into, if their thought process appears to be not consistent and/or not dependable. A logical person doesn't want to partner with (or engage with) someone who appears high risk and thus not safe to be around. When people communicate perspectives, opinions and beliefs without articulating and validating why they are feeling, thinking, or responding in a particular way, then by default they have broken the communication link and made the situation difficult to track and listen to, thus the communication does not make 'sense' and what is being said loses relevance and useful meaning. Perhaps not making sense (appearing irrational) is a defence mechanism used to distract the recipient from clearly understanding what is going on within the sender of the message. Perhaps irrationality is a method of saving face, maintaining influence by deliberately stopping the gears from concluding a debate to the unthinkable emotionally painful conclusion, such as 'only one child per family'. It is the willingness to step off the train of thought becuase it doesn't feel comfortable, or 'I don't like the way it makes me feel about myself'. If I do not understand it, if I do not agree with the idea, then I can claim I was afraid by such an idea, that I felt threatened by such an idea, even when there was no intention by the sender to subjectively personalize, or to offend, or to cause discomfort, or harm. Through cross-examination of motives, the person claiming intimidation from intuitive feeling based appearances, is in fact irrational when not substantiating their claim with verifiable third-person witnessed objective evidence. The he-said vs. she-said plays into the mars-venice defense. The receiver of such irrationality seeks clarification of accurate information in order to demonstrate accountability, integrity, tranparency, trust and responsible adult relationship skills. If I struggle to translate and trust the communication signals you send to me, then you are too much trouble to figure out. If you do not care about being understood, then you do not respect me enough to bridge the gap, and by definition you are toying with me through an unspoken agenda, even if you do not admit it to yourself. By definition, pretending not to know something and witholding information are irrational transfer when the agree upon rules are full communication. If one party changes the ruoes without informing the other party then by definition, the manipulative dysfunctional person (either gender) is destructive and not constructive.
We have studied the same doctoral research findings at our departments at USC. Related publications have verified this at conference presentations from Harvard, Yale and Georgetown. We have extended the verification to other cross-cultural socio-economic demographic profiles.
The simple fact is there is something wrong with humanity, it is not merely a gender issue to do with irrational or rational behaviour, it is the simple fact that humanity has developed badly, which may be due to a great number of different causes. Oppression of the poor is one - not just oppression of women. The popular belief, or that which many radical feminists would like to pass around, is that women are weak and helpless. This is nonsense - women have throughout the ages proved how strong (or manipulative) they really are, either in open display or behind the scenes. Anyway, no one gender is more or less irrational than the other - just in different ways as both sexes have developed according to different rules.
One may consider the fact that males are, in many cases, more physically violent than women, whereas women are more inclined toward verbal assaults. However, many people will dismiss victims of verbal assualt as weak, whereas anyone who is violent no matter what the provocation is inherently bad.
The simple fact is that Humanity is irrational as a species.
Note: I meant that many people will dismiss victims of verbal assualt as weak, whereas it is considered general opinion that anyone (meaning a male) who is violent, no matter what the provocation, is inherently bad. Generally it is perceived, regardless of evidence, that males are inherently violent, and will attack (women) without provocation. However, public perception is that women who would do the same (against a man) would have some valid reason to do so, and so, in cases, will be generally dismissed, and the male victim will be villified for being weak and allowing it to happen. Rather bizarrely women are not perceived as aggressive. That perhaps is the true irrationality of the general public.
And a sad testament to the world we currently live in.
Before I even knew that the person posting this blog was named "Jan" I already could tell by the connotation it was a female. Now I am going to say something that no one can say is untrue:
***FOR THE MOST PART***
In high school, (if you went to a fairly average high school with an average distribution of diverse individuals) you heard the girls at school saying how much they love their boyfriends and how they would do anything for them etc.
However, you hear the boys talk about the girls being sexy and all they wanted to do was have sex with them. Girls, who were completely aware that a vast majority of the boys were not "soul-mate" worthy, still thought that their boyfriends would be their lifetime partners. Disregarding the fact that they knew of some many boys being this way, girls still thought they were exempt to the probability of their relationship failing.
At my school everyone knows I am a pretty smart guy, and I am super sexy. I'm aware of my sexiness and my intellect but I choose to completely ignore it as if I don't know these things about me. I'm always very nice to people and I never argue with anyone about trivial matters. This gives me the "perfect boy" image and enables me to fornicate with whoever I may want to fornicate with. I am an expert at breaking up without making myself look like a jerk and an pro at manipulating women. NO ONE knows these about me and luckily for me this is an anonymous post.
It seems that every girl I get with always thinks that she and I will last forever. Whenever a female asks me if I think we're going to last, I say the obvious... "Yes" ...and then explain to her why she and I have such a "special relationship" as oppose to she and I's previous relationships.
Q: Why do I do these things?
A:To get in her pants
Q: Does it work?
A: Yes
These females I have been with range from 13-19 and I always get my way with them.
My point for telling you all this is... They all think that our relationship is exempt from the probability of failure.
My reason for doing this to these females is...
According to my 8th grade ARC teacher:
2% of all relationships after the Senior year of high school lasts.
I'm a sophomore and have been doing this since I heard her say that; no one is exempt from the probability if they fit the description.
From my experience, women are irrational a lot of time, which I think is because their estrogen interferes with their rational capabilities. I'd like to see a study where estrogen levels are reduced to find out if women make more rational decisions under reduced levels of estrogen.
I haven't seen any studies on estrogen level, but I do know that some ancient culture had a council of elders who made and carried out the decisions for the tribe. The decision makers were the post-menopausal women and the ones who carried out the decision were the men. I don't remember what culture it was though.
When are people going to get past this notion of women being irrational because of hormones? As far as I know men also have hormones. Am I to believe that testosterone does not inspire some irrational behavior? What about men who use money as bait to attract women and then complain when the women they catch are gold-diggers? Is that rational? What about sporting events where sore losers punch out winners? Is that rational? I don't understand the need for either sex to feel superior to the other. Perhaps it is time to get over it.
An individual is irrational when it comes to defend himself. I know because I've been there and I'm smart enough to recognize it.
Women are "emotionally smarter" than men. I believe that men must ALWAYS take the initiative in everything that satisfies his AND her needs, in order to avoid irrational behavior between them. Women become irrational when they're trying to tell you something they can't actually tell you up-front. It's actually quite complicated, but I've grown used to it. And this is a guy writing. So men: whenever they begin to act irrational, maybe it's time to take her out, give her a little romance, and all that stuff. And if it's not that, take your agenda and flip back to the things you were supposed to do at home a year ago that you didn't do and do them. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX I won't be here forever you know!.
That was a nice closure, Manuel. Well, I found everyone's arguments and defenses to read. haha. Anyway, guys, just try to comfort us if we become irritated. If it seems we don't need your comfort (which we actually do!), just don't leave okay? Coz if you leave while we're emoting, we'll hate you forever! hahah..
chill guys.. :)
The notion that women are irrational is very old. Read the thoughts of Arthur Schopenhauer on women. (Google that). One of the most obvious aspects of women is their inability to interact on an completely objective or impersonal basis. For that reason, they are extremely rare in the hard sciences. They are attracted to the fields that involve personalities and subjective reasoning. As a consequence, there has never been a female Copernicus, Galileo, Newton or Einstein. Or a Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, or Mozart. Or a Edison, Bell, Wright, Wozniak, etc. Creative genius in the objective realms seems exclusively a province of male activity. 2000 years of history are not contradicted my the momentary feminist claims to the contrary. In fact the more that feminists speak, the more they reinforce the precise opposite of their claims. That is because their claims are mostly concerned with subjective and interpersonal subjects, as opposed to foundational and objective issues.
"The notion that women are irrational is very old."
So's Newton's Second Law. And so are Copernicus, Galileo, Einstein, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, and Mozart, for that matter.
There is a smug arrogance about the modern academic world that old = wrong. That really pisses me off. Strawman!
Everyone needs someone to blame. Sad thing is that introspection is rarely involved in male or female. The abuse goes both ways, both are guilty. Women need to accept that the "work it" and many women do...the ones that don't are generally very obvious and real. Men are macho, fake and only have one emotion-anger.
The exceptions are not weak soft men who can't make a decision, and love being kicked in the groin. Feminism did create much of this, just as mens lack of introspection before that. We are talking American culture here I assume, in this generation, because Women use to be something tough 100 years ago, not the same as we see now. and men use to need that agression and rage to handle a hostile world. Now its all mixed up. What is real is the basics of patience, simple communication, "yes dear", and long term perspective. Most importantly, don't expect a modern spoiled woman who never faced adversity to become someone you can go into the trenches with. Work conquers all. Love wears off- then the marriage begins. I find women generally pathetic these days, but the exceptions are generally all the better. I blame this one society, programming, social codes, and out worn role playing. It doesn't take a study to see men trying to compensate today with macho shootem up stuff and barbed wire tattoos, and women acting stupid and playing delicate to get exactly what then want. Wait till Isis comes out. Men...it is clear to me, are lost, the reasons why are society and what women want. Time to be our own person, the Self.
Women have things men can't get, men have a ability to use common sense in a way that is beyond the majority. Both these things are not a function of hormones or genetics. Don't forget, its brainwashing....TV from young. Kill the TV and social programming if you can.
One persons opinion.
women can learn things just as well as men but they aren't as capable of independent thought or ideas. they aren't as inventive, abstract, or creative, hence the reason almost all great scientists, musicians, writers, inventors, filmakers, etc. were men. even today, where the playing field is level (actually tipped in favour of women to some extent).
this is because of their irrationality - their behaviour is driven by emotion which leads them to always second guess themselves. female indecision drives men crazy, they have to have men decide everything for them. and when they aren't happy with what we choose they blame us for it.
Great.
Your description of rationality is incomplete, though. What you described is Instrumental Rationality, which helps you achieve your goals. There is also Epistemic Rationality, which helps you get closer to truth.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/31/what_do_we_mean_by_rationality/
Both are important. Women in estrogenic crises seem to lack both.
Cheers.
before I looked at your name I knew you were a woman. and only a woman would try and defend her sex by incompletely writing about the issue.you made it look like men didn't think that themselves were irrational at all. you said that men are equally as irrational as women but really women are more irrational than men. although I didn't read all the comments above, the ones I read also disagreed. you would probably think that it's because only men would actually take the time to read this and then defend themselves. and maybe thats right, but the point is that women are stupid and never actually address any issues, making themselves feel better about "winning"
We're all irrational at times - it’s scientifically proven - which is why we now know what hormones are responsible for love, fear, anger etc -
...which is why is why women in violent relationships go back to their partners & ‘loyal’ men have affairs - equally irrational perhaps. In both cases chemical love (increase of dopamine & serotonin) is a factor. It’s taken 100s of millions of years to get to where we are today - if want to change that then you may be in for a long wait.
Jan congrats on your blog & all the comments - wow! I you should have ads here & earn a few bucks. I'm researching the ‘irrational woman concept’ for a book. My research to date shows:
1. MALE & FEMALE BRAINS ARE DIFFERENT - women have significantly more pathways between the left & right lobes according to UCLA MRI scans - which is why they are better at multitasking for example.
2. IRRATIONAL BEHAVIOUR IS PREDICTABLE - in a studies conducted at various US universities - an average looking person was instructed to ask random students of the opposite sex 'Would you like to have sex with me now?" The results unsurprisingly showed 76% of men saying yes - when asked about their answer the men said they were flattered & excited to have been asked - this is irrational to a woman! As for women 99.2% said no - most women asked felt uncomfortable & were usually offended. The 0.8% that said yes were later tested to show high levels of testosterone – same as in female sex addicts .
3. WE ARE ALL PREDICTABLY IRRATIONAL - when we fall in love, when we buy things, when we crave sex, comfort or acceptance – which is why psychology is a science. The world’s best pick up artists such as J Sinn know how to exploit a woman’s weak spots by attractive dress, firm touch & display of confidence which stimulates the female brain without setting off credibility sensors – irrational? Sure but not if you understand hormonal changes.
Women know they can sleep with almost any man - they are understandably more selective, they are after all in charge of carrying the best genes forward & insuring the continuation of natural selection.
Evolution has made men very visual in their desires - women know this use it this to attract the ‘best males’ - which is why sales of red lipstick, padded bras are massive, which is why 42% of all female teenagers want breast enlargement despite the health risks – for those that argue that that this is ‘false advertising’ – well false advertising is a part of nature – it’s intelligent use of resources.
Women are not indecisive, less clever or inferior, as suggested by some of your respondents -but historically have been repressed by men – something which sadly still happens today. Women are simply programmed to find the best man to suit their desires & provide for them & their children. Some women will of course argue their independence – but observe any teenager & you will see our natural desires without the influence of better judgement & the tarnish of experience.
Understanding each other is the key to our relationships, our desires, our success & our health. Accepting each other’s primal makeup is the most rational thing we can do. It’s the key to better relationships with our partners, our children, our friends. Studies have shown that people with happy childhoods & long term relationships suffer significantly less ill health! - like it or not we need each other & not just for sex for our very survival!
So next time you enter into an argument with your partner male or female as irrational as it may seem – ask yourself is it a hormonal response or just selfishness?... :)
I do <a href="http://website-audit.net>website audits</a> by the way - like the controversy!
We're all irrational at times - it’s scientifically proven - which is why we now know what hormones are responsible for love, fear, anger etc -
...which is why is why women in violent relationships go back to their partners & ‘loyal’ men have affairs - equally irrational perhaps. In both cases chemical love (increase of dopamine & serotonin) is a factor. It’s taken 100s of millions of years to get to where we are today - if want to change that then you may be in for a long wait.
Jan congrats on your blog & all the comments - wow! I you should have ads here & earn a few bucks. I'm researching the ‘irrational woman concept’ for a book. My research to date shows:
1. MALE & FEMALE BRAINS ARE DIFFERENT - women have significantly more pathways between the left & right lobes according to UCLA MRI scans - which is why they are better at multitasking for example.
2. IRRATIONAL BEHAVIOUR IS PREDICTABLE - in a studies conducted at various US universities - an average looking person was instructed to ask random students of the opposite sex 'Would you like to have sex with me now?" The results unsurprisingly showed 76% of men saying yes - when asked about their answer the men said they were flattered & excited to have been asked - this is irrational to a woman! As for women 99.2% said no - most women asked felt uncomfortable & were usually offended. The 0.8% that said yes were later tested to show high levels of testosterone – same as in female sex addicts.
3. WE ARE ALL PREDICTABLY IRRATIONAL - when we fall in love, when we buy things, when we crave sex, comfort or acceptance – which is why psychology is a science. The world’s best pick up artists such as J Sinn know how to exploit a woman’s weak spots by attractive dress, firm touch & display of confidence which stimulates the female brain without setting off credibility sensors – irrational? Sure but not if you understand hormonal changes.
Women know they can sleep with almost any man - they are understandably more selective, they are after all in charge of carrying the best genes forward & insuring the continuation of natural selection.
Evolution has made men very visual in their desires - women know this use it this to attract the ‘best males’ - which is why sales of red lipstick, padded bras are massive, which is why 42% of all female teenagers want breast enlargement despite the health risks – for those that argue that that this is ‘false advertising’ – well false advertising is a part of nature – it’s intelligent use of resources.
Women are not indecisive, less clever or inferior, as suggested by some of your respondents -but historically have been repressed by men – something which sadly still happens today. Women are simply programmed to find the best man to suit their desires & provide for them & their children. Some women will of course argue their independence – but observe any teenager & you will see our natural desires without the influence of better judgement & the tarnish of experience.
Understanding each other is the key to our relationships, our desires, our success & our health. Accepting each other’s primal makeup is the most rational thing we can do. It’s the key to better relationships with our partners, our children, our friends. Studies have shown that people with happy childhoods & long term relationships suffer significantly less ill health! - like it or not we need each other & not just for sex for our very survival!
So next time you enter into an argument with your partner male or female as irrational as it may seem – ask yourself is it a hormonal response or just selfishness?... :)
I do website audits by the way - great website - like the controversy!
I thought this post was well thought out and smart. I generally take the point of view that being PC is dishonest and ignores unpleasant truths, but I don't think Jan has that problem, at least not from this post. My girlfriend is quite irrational, but she's also very smart and over a few years of some very heated arguments she has demonstrated often that I am just as irrational as she is, only in different ways. And seeing it in myself means I suddenly see it in other guys too, so I think your point is valid Jan.
A nice side effect of this is I can't just write her off as irrational when we fight, and I have to look a lot harder at whether or not I am making sense. It takes a lot more work than a BS apology or just shutting her down, but arguments are somewhat constructive now. We still fight plenty because we both want to be the boss, we nearly always reach a rational conclusion that we both feel good about. She even comes to me with a sincere, well thought out apology about half the time, and I try very hard to see my faults so I can reciprocate.
Seriously.
It's great all the comments left by the raging feminists. All you're doing is proving the points of the men you are trying to prove wrong.
Women are fucking insane. You only have to look at the fact that when you get into an argument with one they just will not see any kind of objectivity or logic. even when something is a FACT and they KNOW this, they dodge around the issue, twisting the conversation and situation until they are somehow right.
That's not how the world works, at least outside a womans head.
It's funny though, you'll never once see a woman admit any failing she has. Not once. However hard headed or idiotic men are sometimes at least they are willing to accept that there are some deficiencies in themselves or things they have said/done.
You are right about one thing, there was a male-controlled culture until recently, it's still not totally equal but it's a lot better now. Anyone who says otherwise is just using an old excuse to cover up their current deficiencies and problems.
The most ironic thing is, it's that long period of oppression of women that has made you all the way you are now. You're so "historically oppressed" that you're so determined not to be again in ANY way that it totally blinds you to even legitimate criticisms of you, or failings you may have.
I gave up arguing with women about anything. It's pointless. Now I just let them say their peace and storm off. It's a hell of a lot easier. What's the point? As a man, you're never going to "win" - it's like trying to argue with a child and should be handled in the same way.
If you went out to eat with a group of friends two months ago and were a little flirty with one woman, but haven't flirted since, and nothing indicates that your friendship is any different than your other friendships, why the heck would she dwell on that one instance and dream up a world that you are madly in love with her?
To me, that is irrational.
Is this typical of women?
Some women's (if not the majority) cognitive functioning is arrested at puberty. At that point their capacity for rational logic is overridden by cyclic hormonally induced emotional lability. The are in fact forever stuck at 12 years old. They use their superior capacity for verbal communications to cover for their inner dementia, just like early Alzheimer's sufferers. This is their biology. Teen psychotics.
The original blog shows no knowledge of what it even means to be rational. To say that there are different ways to think rationally is idiotic. There is only one way to think rationally and that is with carefully placed logical steps from your problem to your conclusion.
Moving on women are mostly irrational. They tend to think with their feelings. Men also do this but not as much so. For instance, a man will do it when he is angry. On the other hand, women tend to arrive at all of their conclusions through emotional steps. Which is why they don't know how they arrived at the decision. The steps they made along the way were impulsive and only made sense in that one moment that they felt that way. Women also hold grudges a lot longer than men do which makes them always emotional. They like to hold on to those emotions. I believe that this is the reason for the impulsive decisions. This is not to say that all women do this all of the time. It is just more common in women. It is not to say that they are incapable of rationality, because they are capable with practice. They do not have natural intuition for it like men do though, it is the way we are made. Its built into are DNA. You have to understand that we are all animals. In the majority of mammal societies, the men do the hunting and the women nurse the offspring. In doing this men learn to think more logically about the situation to get the desired result. While women learn how care and how to protect. It is evolution and thus still encoded in our DNA. Look at the facts. Women and men are supposed to be together. It is how it has worked for billions of years in all species. Why do we upset the natural balance now? Is there any wonder as to why the world is going to crap? It is because we upset the natural order. For instance, it hasn't been until the past couple of decades that women would call men controlling and what not. Before that, it is just how it worked. People are idiotic to question and try to fix what has worked for billions of years. Although this may offend some people, the world only works when women obey their men.
Note: I am not sexist, I just can see what everyone else seems so oblivious to.
Totally agree with the above comment. Even if you are to disagree with the evolution sode to it, women are emotionally needy, and if they force themselves to grow out of this then they are not women any more and hold no value of attractiveness. And since they are in need of love and understanding, they need to look up to their men to make decisions and even explain decisions, instead of thinking that bossing around will help. Women know that they are unable to make clear decisions so they rely on men. But they never use that knowledge to re calculate the results of their previous irrational behaviour, and in general their heated up behaviour, and learn the lesson that they need to respect the man at least as much as he respects her. You will always see women respect a man who does not respect her!
Honestly, women need to acknowledge to themselves that they can be irrational at times, and thus should not narrow-mindedly believe what their emotion ridden logic thinks is the ultimate truth.
Women are good at multitasking. This does not translate well into argument, where the male capability to stay on a single track (be rational) is what is more important. I don't believe that women are incapable of being rational, but they have a genetic predisposition to irrationability in argument and decision making.
Like the guy two above said, this makes sense evolutionarily as women would have delt with lots of little issues and more social ones, like preparing food and raising children, than the men who dealt with single, larger issues, like hunting. I'm not saying that this is how we have to be now, with women in the home, and it's entirely right for a woman not to want that, but to accuse men who notice the irrationability as being wrong is just stupid, it's a consistent observation, possibly backed up with physiological causes. (Stuff about the pathways between the left/right brain hemispheres and hormones if you want to go further) Then there's all the social causes, with women being programmed by the media to want irrational things (Like the Vuitton bags) I think these influences just nurture the genetic predisposition to be irrational.
This is just my view, I'm not a scientist or anything, just a student. I don't hate men or women either, I think we can all just try to be better, if we stop bullshitting around and trying to shift the blame, but instead actually diagnose the problems and work on them.
I take the view of Ludwig von Mises - there is no such thing as an 'irrational' action. What bothers men (and me) about women is this: that the female brain and indocrine system is (largely) wired toward maintaining social status and balancing empathic responses; which means they are simply more concerned with how people feel and what others think about them than men are.
Social and emotional forces are thus much more important to women, whereas men don't give a damn quite as much. This comes from an evolutionary history of dependence on familial and social ties to survive, whereas men (while not asocial) are more capable of fending for themselves, abandoning other people when it is inconvenient and never get pregnant.
Personally speaking I find the personality effects this has on (other) women to be abhorrent. I basically find them intolerable company, and can not understand why men don't just resort to prostitution.
"You don't pay her to stay, you pay her to leave."
few men are irrational. Most women are irrational.
Women and men are both entirely rational. The difference is, I think, that some people include a larger component of emotion in their subconscient decision making equation than do others. As emotions are hidden, and are different for every person, this makes their actions harder to understand and makes them appear irrational.
Most women have a large emotional component to their actions, most men don't.
The key for men to understand women is to appreciate that their actions are driven (at least in part) by these emotional unknowns, and to communicate with them to try to find out what these might be. Once you know the base emotional components (insecurity, jealously, pride e.t.c...) contributing to the action, suddenly every action is entirely rational!
For women to understand men, they must know that men most often don't have these emotional unknowns, and thus can't automatically identify with theirs!
So bottom line is.......COMMUNICATION!
There are certain matters that must be addressed in this post specifically. Firstly, 99% of women will disagree entirely with their irrational thought process. So majority of women's posts on this blog are by all means INVALID. Secondly, I love women more than most but I will be first to tell you that 99 out of every 100 women are crazy as hell. And by that I mean they are as irrational as it gets. While it is true that not all men were blessed with the ability of great intelligence, it is also true that women are even less so fortunate. This is due to largely to the hormone differences and brain distributions. Women tend to think with their emotions 100% of the time. While men are more capable of separating out their emotions from logical decision making.
HOWEVER!! Men are the biggest idiots of all. Why? Because some smart guy's decided it would be a good idea to come up with the 19th amendment and allow women to vote and therefore taking them out of the safety of the kitchen and putting them in the streets where they become a danger to themselves and everyone around them while they attempt to make decisions for themselves.
So, MEn, ARE YOU ALL PERFECT? YOU AREN'T, YOU'RE NOTHING, JUST LIKE US! YOU CAN'T GIVE BIRTH, YOU CAN'T COOK, YOU CAN'T CLEAN, ALL YOU CAN DO IS STARE AT US, WAITING US TO BE YOUR MOTHERS!
I'm so sorry about that.. I really am. We work waay musch then u do, u arrive home after work and continue to work so that YOU,MEN, CAN EAT!
funny how this woman tries to come across as rational, as she dissects the subject. Anyways, women should apprecitate the creativity and hard work of men, we built this society, and designed all the new technology.
in my experience women are very irrational, and have treated me unfairly.
women murder their own unborn children... enough said,
The fact that hot women end up being arm candy for a jerk with no job shows how irrational they are. Logically, the hotter you are, the easier it is to get a guy that can actually support you. Yes, this is also feeding off of the irrationality of most men, that physical attraction is such a large part of most of our criteria. And us men also murder our own kids/families as well, so that's also an irrational and pointless argument. This thread is showing that both men and women are irrational, but women are much more emotional and therefore unable to control their irrationalities to the extent that less emotional men can. Rather, since women are in such extremes in terms of emotions all the time compared to men, there's less opportunity for them to be rational. Everyone, even men, are less rational when they are emotional. The inverse relationship between rationality and emotion explains why women are more prone to irrational thoughts than men. I'd like to see a study with homosexuals, both male and female included, and see if that has any effect on rationality. The common idea is that gay men are more emotional than straight men, and gay women less emotional than a straight women.
I can almost laugh at CA9. Give birth? So what? What does that have to do with rationality? No one is disputing the importance of women, just exploring rational/irrational behavior. And aren't you forgetting that you NEED men to give birth? Or do you clone yourself inside your womb? And you also need a house to clean, just as you need kids to take care of. You take men out of the equation, everything you listed as the important things women do, become obsolete. And men can't cook, can't clean? I know many girls that can't boil an egg properly, at least I can make omelettes. You women are destroying yourselves, you complain that you have to do all this house work, etc, how it's unfair. That type of thinking is leading to less girls being able to do that, and it's not like they're improving academically to make up for their lack of domestic skill. Instead of emotional, irrational women that can cook, clean, help take care of the family, there's emotional, irrational, feminists that feel men should do EVERYTHING. Women always resort to that argument, but what about the work the men do? How often do you see a man complaining about how his wife needs to start doing more of his work. On top of that, women expect men to cater to their every need- I want these shoes, buy it for me. Get me this necklace. I want to eat this, lets go there tonight. Get real. If you want to be appreciated, do your damn work, just as we do ours, without feeling entitled to more. It's a give and take relationship, and recently, more and more women are trying to take and take and take.
I realize this became a rant halfway in, but it does have some valid points, as well as invalid points, so I'll keep it up anyway. I'm not going to bother going back to say which parts are irrational/rational, you can do that yourselves.
So, rational thinking. The idea that there is more than one way to view rational is, as someone pointed out before, bs. Our perception on rational thought changes with emotion, but that is just OUR PERCEPTION. For people who don't see the difference, here's an example:
You see 2 people in the distance, one looks taller than the other. In fact, they're the same height. Our PERCEPTION is that one is taller, the FACT, ie the actual rational thought, is that they are the same height.
Now, I believe that everyone believes that they are being rational, even when they are not. Emotions can influence your perception, so what you perceive as rational is not actually rational. This is why people have such a hard time accepting that they are irrational. The degree to which particular emotions can influence this perception varies from situation to situation, so I will not say that all emotion is bad. Sometimes, it can lead to a positive outcome, but that, in my opinion, is solely due to chance. You make 100 irrational choices, a couple will probably result in a positive outcome. But if you don't let yourself be clouded by your perception, but rather take things as they are, you'll be able to come up with a course of action that results in a positive outcome the majority of the time. I have more to say, but it's a pain to write it all, so there. Just some food for thought.
I generally agree that women are not interested in making sense so much as they are social power. However it is the pussified stupidity and hormonal drives of men that allows them to be that way. Men are stronger, smarter and control the money. If they weren't such pussy-chasing pussies they could easily put as stop to this bullshit.
Bitches are crazy. You really gonna argue with that? Have you never interacted with a woman before?
A story on the news recently was talking about the trend in males not being very successful in academia whereas females were doing far better. It was because it's wasn't "cool" to be smart... totally irrational! I hate stereotypes but, hey, look where I'm posting and how I got here (Google search for the very thing the author mentioned!). I'm dealing with a postmenopausal wife who has a PhD but has gone off the deep end in terms of rational thinking. The author avoided the question of hormones but I think that's sometimes a huge part of it!
I have read through most all the comments here, and, being a guy, I have to say just from the comments how obvious it is that men are as a general rule more rational. Just to clarify for you raging feminists, not EVERY female is more irrational, and not EVERY male is more rational. But, generally speaking, overall, men are definitely more rational than women.
If you take the time to read through the posts here, you will see that most posts by men are quite logical. There is not alot of emotional hate in response to the original article, the way alot of women would do. I feel the posts from men are very well stated, and site studies, and use logic to demonstrate their point, without being overly emotional or hateful. Women, on the other hand, tend to flame more, and not even really read an article (or post) fully, but reply in a hateful manner, with a bunch of illogical slams of men in general.
I think it is obvious from the above posts, that men are not necessarily out to demean or subjugate women, we just want to be respected, and appreciated for what we do. We have become so sick of being run down by society in general, and in our own personal relationships.
In case you women haven't thought about it, without men, and their more logical thinking, we would almost certainly not have gone to the moon, have computers, have airplanes, cars, refrigerators, radios, sewer systems, tvs, and the list goes on and on and on. Yes, women could probably manage some "modern inventions", but nowhere near what the male has accomplished. So, damn it, just give us some credit, and stop running us down, and blaming us for all your problems. Please! We are begging you! We love you, and just want you to be happy, but you never are!!!
Just to be fair, women have become more rational over the past 2 or 3 decades as they have been forced to do so. More and more men are walking away from marriage and taking care of a woman, so more and more women have to get real jobs, hence they must be more rational.
However, women still corner the market on ridiculous crap; crap TV, crap magazines, shopping sprees on crap, crap gossipy conversations, crap hobbies such as crafting (crapting), and other such useless behavior and beliefs. Have you ever tried to hold a conversation with a woman on anything that matters (economics, politics, career, etc)? You might as well have that conversation with a 12 year-old. And yes, women do have opinions on politics...but it's all about what's in style (Obama and his Utopian Society and how the government will save the country and other crappy notions). But hey, they do know about who's doing well on Dancing With The Stars.
A lot of the Western World is becoming feminized. There are more women going to college then men these days. Boys in public schools are being indoctrinated that they are bad for, well, being boys. This well planned out shaming is directly correlated with and perpetuates the acceptance of irrational behavior of women. One of my favorite quotes comes from the movie "Full Metal Jacket". It goes, "It's a huge shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite." Bon appetit!
Just to add, what role do you think the hormones derived from the contraceptive pill has had for the rationality of women, if any at all?
Women are definitely irrational. They get most angry with those they love most, they say things like "you always do that" when you do something for the first time and they allow difficulties in one area of life (such as work) to impinge on other areas of their life (such as relationships).
What is most fustrating for we men is that even when they KNOW that they do all of the above, and KNOW the effects it has on us, they continue to do it.
THAT is irrational.
I would say that women tend to be very rational in their arguments, in the conversation part, but not very rational in the their decisions, I say this specifically when it comes to choosing men.
In other words, they say they want a specific man, but they choose the opposite man; that is what I define as irrational about women in general.
Listen. Women are straight up fucked in the head irrational. They need to chill out and stop been so highly strung. Our lass causes ALL our arguments from being irrational. Whenever I put myself on the receiving end of a question I may have asked, I answer it like a NORMAL HUMAN BEING, not a straight up weird fuck who needs to back the fuck off. Women. You need to have a word with yourselves.
Two years ago I began recording my phone conversations with women I date.
I then listen to them and analyze them.
The women say one thing , then later in the conversation say the opposite.
They complain of something I did but when I show them they did the same thing, they either switch topic or tell me I am not nice.
when I ask why it is not nice when I do it but they do it, they get angry.
then they start an argument about something new.
and when they can not win this one either because I use facts and logic instead of making up stuff, they start making up stuff and accusing me of wanting to win every debate.
or they accuse me of something else they pull out of a magician's hat.
I am 53 years old, I have dated dozens of women and over 80% of them are like that. ( which is why I am now documenting their irrationality with the phone recordings )
I have discussed this with many men and they all agree; it is hard to have rational conversations with women.
It's perhaps because they want to be loved, not necessarily 'understood'.
Now that's a woman. :)
Just face it, if science could ever perfect the ideal artificial vagina the world would be a much less confusing and friendly place.
My girlfriend and I hao on a bike rideve been together for four years and we live together. I have been invloved with many women in the past, but this one is amazingly irrational. Today we went to go on a bike ride. When she parked the car and I got out to take the bikes off the rack I noticed that the front of the car was near the curb but the back of the car was almost three feet from the curb. You can actually get a ticket for being so far from a curb and we were also near a train station where polics and meter maids come and go. So I kindly say "you're far from the curb, you can get a ticket, I think it just needs to be straightened out a little". What do I get in return? A loud bitchy tonedI just don't want you to get a 50.00 ticket for the reason" Well I did not get a chance to finish my sentence before I get a whole bunch of cuntyness my way. She is just so irrational attimes, has a history of yelling in my apartment (which I own, and the neighbors hear this all the time....very bad, a man does not like to have the sound of a woman yelling from his apartment for an array of reasons.)she also has a history of hitting me when she is in irrational dumbass mode, I would never dare lay a hand on her, I usually just get in my car and take a long drive after she acts like an animal. She has been acting like an ass for a few years now (even though I asked her to live with me for fucking FREE!. You would think a woman would be grateful for this freedom.....of course not!!!!!). SO being that we were not home and on a bike trail I could finally relieve all my pent up frustrations outdoors, and I fucking let her know what a twat she is. WOMEN LISTEN: You cannot keep pushing a mans buttons, and once we finally lose it, then you turn the tables and say "look how your acting, control yourself" YOU ARE ONLY ADDING FUEL TO THE FIRE!!! And when her period cycle kicks in HAHAHAH what a maniac she becomes, total mania, for no real reason, just looking for problems. I don't use this term, but don't you think its interesting how women are referred to as bitches almost as much as they are reffered to as a girl or woman?? Its just true, yes men can be irrational of course, but women take it to a whole other sad, sick level.
It is scientifically proven that women are physically weaker,more prone to emotions than men, and less rationally adept than men considering the part of the brain that processes logic is more developed in men for the evolutionary purpose of hunting. Women need the emotions to care for children while men need the logic to hunt. On average, women can express themselves better than men. Men are designed to be biologically superior to women and women are meant to be subject to them. But that is biologically, in society, gender equality is necessary for a healthy, functioning society. Many women, however, are over dramatic, rely on their looks, do not have consideration for males and their feelings, and believe they can be as good as any man. Men are people too and many, but not all, women are trying to oppress that. Women can be inconsiderate and irrational, but trends have shown that most of them do believe in gender equality, but female superiority is more irrational than male superiority on a biological standard.
I agree with the last post, it is perfectly valid and correct. Here is an accurate description of women:
The half of the human race which has the dead weight and weakness imposed with reproduction. They are physically, psychologically, and emotionally weaker than their male counterparts. This is due to a shorter developmental period, a smaller body, a smaller brain with fewer cells, and the physical and mental dead weight imposed with reproductive organs. Women also have an underdeveloped sense of logic and judgment, which results in a tendency to lie (poorly).
Modern feminists like to call themselves right-brained and creative to help their gender insecurities and attempt to feel superior to men. They do not let petty facts discourage them, and claim that the reason there are few great female scientists and no great female artists is because of society. They pretend that evolution, religion, and culture are inane, and believe the source of all their gender issues are males. They try to ignore that the reason it is a man's world is because men built the world.
Modern feminists also believe their bodies can be as strong if not stronger as a man's. They ignore the fact that sports require gender segregation to allow women to compete. Otherwise, little Suzy might be beaten in basketball by the taller, stronger men...and that wouldn't be good for her little girl self esteem, would it?
Girls try to compensate for their physical and mental deficiencies by creating "bitched out" versions of what men do. They try act hardcore and tough by sipping daddy's beer, blowing daddy's smokes, and on the days when they are feeling extra brave, swallowing daddy's Tylenol. Because of their gender, their pointless actions are parodies of male rebellion. Despite their acts of independence, they still have their swollen chest, useless muscles, and wide hips. Ironically, if it weren't for the sexual aesthetics modern feminism attacks, women would be ugly.
Women enjoy sex less than men because they have to be "in the mood" to "do it" and even then they often feel weak and helpless. They tend to enjoy sex less because, evolution wise, childbirth makes a man a father (if he desires) but is a weakening if not deadly experience for women. During and after a pregnancy they suffer psychological and physical trauma, and tend to become depressed from the hormonal imbalance. Despite this, they endure intercourse as a way to gold dig, to find a potential husband, and to feel a vacant sense of worth.
Some of these comments from men come off as very sexist. Whether the poster intended it to be sexist cannot be determined. So I would like to state that I believe ALL human beings should be treated equally and given the exact same rights regardless of sex, religion, nationally etc., so I don’t come off as a sexist pig
Now that being said a lot of what was posted were facts regardless of how sexist they may seem. It is an undeniable fact that IN GENERAL men are genetically superior to women in most biological aspects. Women are biologically more inclined to be emotional and therefore much more irrational. Just like men are biologically more prone towards committing violent acts.
Jan while what you wrote is very insightful; it almost treats the subject in terms of absolutes. Meaning the tone of your post makes it seem as if all men believe they are completely rational while believing all women are irrational. However, when it comes to most subjects there are no absolutes. Just like there are women capable of committing acts of violence, there are men who are very irrational.
Each gender has its shortcomings and we can make a list for both sides that would make perfect sense. But since we are concentrating on just irrationality the way to sum it up is this: If you take a group of men and women large enough mathematically to represent the whole of the human race and follow their every action from birth to death; the women will make irrational decisions at a much higher rate than the men ever will.
I'm a woman and I googled this topic because I was wondering about my own emotional irrationality and I wanted to know men's views on women and their emotional irrationality. I am hurt to read a lot of these men's comments...as if men lack empathy, it seems. I, as a woman, am disgusted by my own irrationality and emotions sometimes and most of the time I try to analyze why the hell I did a thing or two and even BEFORE I do these things, I think of the repercussions and tell myself to calm down...However emotional outbursts/irrationalities still occur. Why? I want the answers myself. I want nothing more than to love a man, respect him, and uphold to my womanly duties of working and taking care of the home, and always my man. However what I notice is that when women feel taken for granted, or not special (although in a man's mind he could be thinking how wonderful his woman is), she acts very irrational in her communication. I think a lot of this stems from fear of being ridiculed or rejected by the man she loves and sacrifices for (and its a self fulfilling prophecy because thats exactly what ends up happening anyway BECAUSE of her irrational, emotional response). What I would like is for man to have more empathy and delicacy in his woman counterpart. You say you are superior? Please act this way in a kind manner, fulfill your woman's need for love and affection, and attempt to understand that women want to be wanted and needed, as well as respected by their men, and if this was done with more attempts at understanding and empathy, then maybe women can really work harder at trying to control their irrationality (which is nothing but a bunch of pent up negative, unheard, invalidated feelings).
Anyway, that's my take on it...but I can see where everyone else is coming from with their comments.
I just hope that man and woman can learn to treat each other better. I strongly believe it would improve the world if we all tried a little harder to be more understanding of each gender's mindset and biological make up. Remember we are all human, and none of us asked for this. But we are here. Let's love more and make a grander opening for more rational uses of our brains. I think we can do it.
I'm trying every day.
Much love and peace to you all.
Yup, a woman and irrational.
It isn't ignorance, it is experience, any man who has had an argument with a woman knows how they are. They get off topic, they use the past until they confuse and fuzzy up what the original discussion or argument was till they get an apology before the man knows what happen. The woman will actually get mad and upset over something that didnt even happen! That is irrational. Dont need to read a book to know that. # experiences
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